Tran Quoc Bao is a wonderfully laid back person. As I open up our Zoom call his background is set to the scene from Parasite’s sub-basement bathroom. He mentions it’s his house and asks if we would like a tour. Mentored by action director Corey Yeun, Bao is a man who’s been working in the industry since 2002. He’s been an editor, writer, producer, stuntman, and now he’s blessed us with his first feature as a director, The Paper Tigers. A kung fu comedy with a heart of gold about middle aged dads trying to redeem themselves and solve the mysterious death of their master. It’s a blast and I sat down virtually with Bao to talk about mentorship, martial arts, and taking naps.
FC: Clearly the inspiration from martial arts is present in this film, why use martial arts to tell this type of story?
BAO: Well, first of all, I grew up watching martial arts films so it’s a genre that I loved so it’s something that we wanted to be able to tell that story in this mode. The other thing that was interesting as I was getting older and the story was coming about, I was feeling like a lot of things I valued and treasured when I was younger started becoming jaded and cynical to me, particularly about film. I started making films when I was younger and a lot of things that I thought were really important and valuable, you know I started working in the industry more and you start to see the darker side of those things. So all those feelings sort of came together as far as what would be an interesting story in a martial arts film. Also for these characters who had something they valued when they were younger and whether it was true anymore for them as they grow up and out of those things. I just thought it was a really dynamic way to put it in.
FC: The “comeback” story is usually one we see for a more traditional “superhero” type, younger guys normally. How was it writing this story for someone we don’t normally attribute to that role?
BAO: Yeah I just tried to put myself in the mindset which isn’t that hard. Especially as someone who’s approaching the hill or crossing over into it. (laughter) I think it was something to see the “what if” and see where that went with the script. Drilling deep into the consequences of martial arts culture and being pulled back into it when you haven’t been into it mentally, spiritually, and physically. Those are all things that are ripe. We tried to pull out all those different scenarios and see what that would look like. Our pitch was basically “Imagine if you had to fight a death match but you have to go pick up your kid from soccer first.” So those are kind of the things, we wanted to see what those consequences would be and what the most interesting things would be to happen to these characters as well.
FC: There’s no right way to write a screenplay, what worked for you when you were writing it? What was your writing routine?
BAO: It started in fits and starts. I was working as an editor for some films in Vietnam so I had it as a treatment and I’d go and work for a bit then come back to it. So it was fits and starts with how I developed it and worked on it. For me, I do like to break down an outline. I picked it up from James Cameron actually. He does something called a “scriptment”. A screenplay is very formalized and structured as far as the scene breakdowns, the characters, the descriptions. It’s very down to the minute details what’s going on in a scene. So what he would do is a mishmash between a treatment, which is kind of a prose or descriptor type of writing, and the classic screenplay where it goes into a script dialogue. So if you didn’t wanna describe a scene too much you would just give a very terse prose description and if you liked a scene then you could just start breaking it down closer and go into the dialogue. So that really helped because it helps keep your ideas going, you don’t have to slow down and figure out “well what does he say” or “what does she say” if you don’t have it figured out yet. And vice versa, if you have a good clear idea you can really start drilling down without having to figure out what came before or after down to the details. So that was really freeing. It ends up being half the length of a normal screenplay. It’s my process and really worked especially with time constraints of coming and going. Took longer than I’d hoped but yeah.
FC: How long did you work on it?
BAO: From treatment to the script, I’d say about 3 or 4 years.
FC: First features usually require on the day problem solving. Was there a moment on set that required a creative solution?
BAO: Yeah. All day every day. The hits keep coming, the best laid plans always go amuck. You gotta stay on your feet, especially on an indie film. The resources are tight, the money is tight, the time is tight so you always have to figure out something. Our crew was always amazing and could roll with the punches. There was one day where you just have to leave it be and that was up on the rooftop. We had it scheduled for four nights there but one night, I think night number two, one of the biggest thunderstorms of the last 15 years in Seattle decided to roll through. So we just had to shut down as it became a safety issue having all these metal rods and equipment on the roof. That was a time where it just felt so out of your control. It was also near the end of the shoot so it felt mythical in a lot of ways. Because we just went through the trenches and fought the battle and adjusted and solved everything and it just came to “This is out of your hands” for like 2 or 3 hours. Everyone started playing words with friends. I think I took a nap. (laughs)
FC: The theme of “mentorship” comes up a lot in the relationship between The Tigers and the different masters they deal with. I was wondering if you could talk about that and your relationship to your mentors. Was there something you had learned from them to honor them with a movie like this?
BAO: Yeah I think mentorship is part of the art of learning. Whether it’s learning film, martial arts, and anything that you wanna dive deep into you can’t just google this. There’s things where you have to have someone who had something and can hand it to you. I firmly believe in that. There’s some things that are hard lessons that are built over years that you might as well tap into and try to figure it out. And you might never figure it out in your lifetime. Because you’re receiving wisdom from the ancestors and getting their received wisdom over generations. So I think there’s huge power in that. The mentorship is a huge part in the film because I think is what gives it its power. The characters have to learn to think beyond themselves and think about what they were given that was very valuable but also something valuable they have to pass on.
FC: All three of your leads are incredibly watchable and wonderful actors as well as fighters. What was it like trying to cast for essentially stuntmen as well as leading men?
BAO: It’s a challenge. It was a conversation we had down to the final moments of casting. Like do you look for a really good martial artist stuntman that can maybe act? Or do you look for an actor who’s really great and maybe have to hire a double and risk those scenes? The margin of error on indies is just so thin when trying to pull it all off. Luckily, we did win Ron [Yuan] in the role of Hing and he’s a veteran of martial arts stunts and acting so we definitely hit the jackpot with him. For Danny and Jim, played by Alain [Uy] and Mykel [Shannon Jenkins] you know they’re not as experienced in martial arts so trying to find that balance was the challenge. But also it was a time of just embracing it, because if they’re a little sloppy or a little off it also works for our characters. So it’s making those judgement calls as to what’s usable and what’s not. What we should reshoot or scrap. Huge kudos to our action team and action director, Ken Quitugua, for being very mindful about working with these actors who are all from different backgrounds and skill levels.
FC: As I’m sure this was a dream come true to finally be making something so personal, was there a specific moment on set where you thought “Oh my god, this is going to be amazing.”
BAO: Nah, I knew it was gonna be amazing. (laughter) Those “aha” moments go throughout production. And I think I felt the whole time like this was really hitting on cylinders, and that we really be better to do this justice in the editing. Because everyone was giving us such gems and gold on the day and now the responsibility starts to fall on me and my editor Kris Kristensen as far as giving shape to everything. A lot of actors were given opportunities to improv and giving us different things from take to take which is all you could ask for on the day and I just felt this mounting pressure of “They’re giving you all this great stuff so you better be able to make something good out of it” That’s mostly what I felt.
FC: Flip side of that last one – was there a moment where you thought “Oh shit, this is going to suck, what have I done?”
BAO: Oh every day. (laughter) I think if you don’t waver between confidence and fear on any given day, your movie is not gonna come out well. It keeps you on your toes and helps you make sure everything is coming out the way it should be. It’s that constant vigilance and constant swag you have to maintain. It’s the confidence of knowing you’ve done this before but you’re also doing something new. For us it was hard to point to any other film that had done this so we knew we were trying something different. When you do that it’s a lot of uncharted territory and a lot of questions and doubts that come with that.
FC: As a genre filmmaker, I’m assuming you’re also a big film watcher, are there any references to other movies in this film? What were your biggest influences going into production?
BAO: We put a couple cameos and lines in that were loving nods scattered throughout but we wanted to twist and bend a lot of those tropes to kinda fit our story better as well. I was looking at some other stuff, you know you’ve got these characters that are growing up and out of what they used to be together. So I was looking at, like, The Big Chill as like a kung fu movie. Shaun of the Dead in terms of characters and action. Also Jojo Rabbit in terms of the balance in the action, humor, and pathos. Just to know it could be done was inspiring.
FC: What’s next for you?
BAO: Only COVID knows. (laughter) I do have a lot of projects I want to do, the big question is whenever, wherever we can get back to work. To be honest, if this film is able to do well and I can continue and make films beyond this. I don’t take it for granted, it’s not often that people can continue and make next films so I’m trying to enjoy the ride.
The Paper Tigers premiered Sunday August 30th at Fantasia Fest’s virtual film festival but has an encore on Tuesday, September 1st at 5:30 PM EST and I can’t encourage you enough to go and get tickets.
