When director Ninja Thyberg’s 2013 short film Pleasure made its debut at Cannes, her vision and talent for cinematic storytelling were clear. After a subsequent Sundance selection in 2014, the conversation her film ignited about the porn industry spread like wildfire. Having long been fascinated with porn, gender roles, and industry stereotypes, Thyberg soon set out to expand this dialogue by developing Pleasure into a full feature. Now, nearly nine years later, Pleasure is finally being widely released in all its glory.
The story of Pleasure is told through a young Swedish woman named Bella Cherry (Sophia Kappel). Driven by the desire to be the best actress in the adult industry, Bella moves to Los Angeles in pursuit of her dream. Though determined, Bella is a bit green when it comes to screen time. As she strives to make a name for herself, Bella discovers her voice, her niche, and that not everything that glitters is gold. Told from the female gaze and with a cast that includes many real-world adult performers, Pleasure is an insightful, bold, heartfelt, and raw cinematic experience.
In order to effectively convey her story properly, Thyberg knew that tone would be everything. She also knew that the film’s score would play a big part in establishing that. To help with this monumental task, Thyberg turned to Swedish composer Karl Frid. A talented and extremely versatile musician, Karl (often along with his brother Pär) has been composing and performing music for film and television since 2011.
To help reinforce the themes and narrative in Pleasure, Frid turned to an unexpected dynamic duo — opera and hip-hop. By playing with the rich history and cultural associations of each individual genre, Frid was able to inject the film with layers of resonating meaning. A powerfully effective score, Frid’s music acts as a perfect partner to Thyberg’s creation and a wonderfully engaging standalone listen. In an effort to learn a bit more about the music for Pleasure, I sat down with Frid to discuss his music. On top of discussing his process, approach, and working with Thyberg, we dive into the complexities of cultural musical associations. It’s a spellbinding conversation that only reinforces the powerful role that music plays in cinema.
Film Cred: How did you first get involved with Pleasure and what attracted you to this project?
Karl Frid: I’ve been scoring films for 12 years together with my brother. We normally work as a pair and they contacted us and asked us if we were interested in the film. I knew Ninja the director a bit from before, but I was just briefly acquainted with her. But, I had also worked for the producers before. So I watched the film and I was blown away by the rough cut of it. I was just blown away by this female gaze and the perspective and the really authentic feeling look into that world.
I thought it was really cool and I’d never seen anything like it before with this sense, with that attitude and, you know, ballsiness. So I was telling my brother, “Yeah, we have to do this.” But unfortunately, he was currently working on a commission writing for a symphony orchestra and he had to do that. So I was like, “Okay. I’ll do it myself.” I was a bit nervous about that because we normally work together, but it also felt very natural and I was really into it.
FC: Ninja has been working on developing this project for many years and she’s quite open about how important this subject and story are to her. That said, what was it like working with her on this? How involved with the music was she?
KF: It was great. We had such a great collaboration, and it’s always like that working with a director. I try to sort of interpret what that director wants out of the music; what he, or she, or they, or it is going for. She was very involved in the whole process, all the time.
At the start, she knew what she wanted in her head, but she couldn’t really pinpoint exactly what. It was more like we were discussing a lot. So I tried something out and, it was completely wrong. [Laughs] So I had to start over again. Which is great! Because that’s also part of the creative process. If you don’t really know what you want, but know this is not it then, great! I know that’s not the way we’re going to go.
She was really involved in the whole process. Talking about it, but also down to the music editing. She also had this really fun idea of…there’s this video artist called Pipilotti Rist and she did this version of Chris Isaak’s “Wicked Game” where she’s just screaming her lungs out on this song. And, there was something really cool about that and we wanted to try it. I tried that with the soprano, Caroline Gentele, but I also did it with Ninja.
Ninja literally came in one morning and was just like, “Ok, let’s record it.” I mean, we did it on the tracks that I’d written, but she was just screaming her lungs out. I have it on video somewhere. Two hours later, she didn’t have any voice left. We walked out of the studio to get some lunch and we met this neighbor who was just looking at me like I was some kind of monster. [Laughs] But, she was really involved like that. We actually have that in the film. It’s barely audible, but it’s when Bella is in the limousine with Ava. You can hear, faintly, someone is actually screaming and that’s Ninja screaming.
Her idea was that she wanted an epic score and she wanted the music to be a statement in itself. She also knew she wanted hip-hop, but I think that originally was more like, having hip-hop sync songs. But once we landed in this universe, it opened a lot of doors.
FC: This sonic universe and the tonal palette play such a crucial role in the overall tone for Pleasure. Talk a little bit about developing that and how you ultimately landed on some of the instrumentation choices that you did.
KF: When I normally compose with my brother, we always talk about this. Like, what is the universe of this film? Because each film is unique and you need to find that specific space in order to welcome the audience in. You want them to feel like, “Okay. I’m here. I’m actually in this.” And music is a really important part of this. What makes movies great is when you find that and all of those pieces of the puzzle come together. But when composing, that can also be quite a long journey to reach that. You have to be willing to try different stuff, be willing to throw away stuff, and then narrow down where you are and how watching the film together with that music makes you feel.
Originally, Ninja had this idea that she wanted to explore — how does the female body sound? You know, with moaning and breathing. It was very much about the score being with Bella, finding her voice, and what exactly that was. We talked a lot about this. We then talked about the cello and I came back with some sketches that all sounded quite generic. She didn’t want that. But that was really good because then we sort of moved the searchlight in another direction.
We then started talking about the idea of the harlot versus the Madonna. The serene and the raw and how, with patriarchal structures, the male gaze often looks at the female as an object. We wanted to try and capture how that sounds. Men tend to put women on pedestals and they have this image of how a woman should sound, how women should act or be, or even how they should have sex. Or like, how the woman is often there to police the man and not just be who they are.
So we started looking at that from the Madonna perspective. But what is that? We discussed opera and Gregorian chants, and we came across Hildegard von Bingen who was this 12th-century composer who wrote these choral pieces for nun choirs. There was something very special about that sound. But we were also interested in the dramatic part. The way opera singing operates, there’s something very constructed about it. It’s not a natural way of singing, it’s dramatic. So we drew some lines between that and fake orgasms. They are not the same, but similar ways of expression.
I called this opera soprano, Caroline, who I’ve worked with before, and said, “Can you come into the studio and just try some stuff out?” And, she’s really great. She’s one of these classical musicians that also has a very good ear and the ability to improvise. I could just say, “Can you sing this?” And she would just follow me. I would sing very poorly and she would interpret that. I could use her almost like an instrument of sorts. I did some sketches based on what we talked about with Ninja and found these lyrics from the Mozart Requiem. They were from the purgatory part of that which I found really interesting.
And then I thought, “So, what happens if I put a hip-hop beat on top of this?” I did a lot of different calibrations, but we found this piece called the “Confutatis” and I put this really simple trap beat on top of that. I just played it to Ninja and she was like, “Yes. I love this. This is it.” So we tried it with several scenes and we went from there.
FC: I thought the juxtaposition of styles worked so well, not just to help convey Bella’s story, but also to represent the porn industry itself. It’s still so stigmatized, but also incredibly in-demand. It’s like the Madonna-whore complex you mentioned earlier but on a massive, industrial scale.
KF: Yeah, and I know Ninja, when she was researching for this, she actually went to Los Angeles and got to know this team. That’s how they came to be in the film as well. Some are playing themselves and some are playing other parts. But I remember her telling me how she was on a porn set and they thought it was a bit fun she was there. So they turned to her and were like, “So now you’re going to decide where he’s going to cum. Is he going to cum on the belly, breast, or on the face?” And she was like, “What!?” It was so strange.
Also, when they were doing more rough scenes, the guys behind the set were kind of like, “What’s wrong with you?” As in, the public. Like, “Why do you want us to do this?” What I learned from Ninja is that they’re producing what we are demanding, what we searched for. So they’re like, “Ok. You want this crazy shit? Yeah? Let’s do that crazy shit because it sells.”
That’s also the same within popular culture today. It’s the same thing in pop music or the film industry. People tend to like Marvel films so let’s do a bunch of them, you know? No ill will about that, I love a good Marvel pic but, it’s more that kind of patriarchal structure that lives in our lives every day. That’s what I really like about this film because we are looking at the porn industry, but you can see so many parallels. That’s what I feel is the real genius about it. By putting a female gaze on that, you expose the male gaze and all the structures behind it.
FC: I mean, you also mentioned that a lot of the lyrics were inspired and pulled from religious texts and I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that the church is set up very similarly. The layers here are so fascinating.
KF: Exactly! But that also made it so interesting. The score isn’t intentionally religious or has any religious intentions, but it has those connotations. The whore versus the Madonna and those structures, it becomes clearer in a sense.
FC: I find that aspect of film composing so interesting — the cultural subtexts and connotations. How you weren’t intending to comment on the church, but somehow still do, draw this line to the porn industry, and make it work with the film. All through music.
KF: It’s all about cultural history as well, you know? It’s all connected. I think you need to be aware of those codes, those cultural meanings, and how they will point towards particular emotions or contexts. But, you can still use them in another context. It’s all about manipulation in a sense. Music is also very direct, we hear it instantly. But we maybe don’t register it instantly. Maybe after a while, we are like, “Oh. What’s this going on here?” We tend to see the picture and we get sucked into that, but then the music is there helping us either to understand it, to distort it, or whatever it chooses to do. That’s really cool.
FC: I definitely also want to discuss the hip-hop aspect of your score and work with the artist, Mapei. What was that collaboration like? And, from your perspective, what did that music represent in the film?
KF: For Ninja, one of the main things at the beginning, was to have this music. It was an answer to, “What music does Bella listen to? What music do her colleagues listen to?” And, “What could that represent?” We tend to think about porn and the stigmas that come with that. Like, “Oh, these poor girls are being taken advantage of. They’re being coerced into this.” Or, “They don’t have a will of their own.” But, these women, what we’re trying to point out is that they don’t see themselves as that. They are in control and they feel empowered. They feel bad-ass and this music represents that about them. But it also has this grittiness to it in contrast to the sacred, angelic choirs. We could have this battle between it, but one that also worked really well together.
Especially for this friendship theme I did for Bella and Joy which was based on this old Italian poem. I wanted it to be almost like the “Flower Duet” by Lakmé. If you fly British Airways, you can hear it. [Laughs] I wanted that warmth and that playfulness. So, I composed this waltz that was really simple in its structure. I found that combining that sort of serene and that warmth with this 808 bass to keep it down made it a bit gritty. I was still just using samples from Carolyn and I did voice synthesizes where I made all the chords and everything. That’s kind of how I played with it. I always wanted to have the voice very pressing, but sometimes just manipulated in a sense.
Then, for the Uber scene on the way to the pajama party, Ninja edited it into slow motion and she had this idea of having that song sort of enhanced or elevated. So we came to them and said, “We should do this as an actual rap track.” So, I worked together with my studio assistant [Ludvig] Klint and he helped me with a beat. We found a way of making it into a hip-hop song. When we talked about this early on it was like, “Who could do this?” And, there aren’t that many female rappers in Sweden that are as great as Mapei.
She was the first choice and the first name that popped up in my mind. I didn’t know her from before, but during the time Ninja was editing the film, Mapei was in the studio next door because she was working on a documentary she did for Swedish television. So they talked about it and she showed Mapei a cut of the film and she was also like, “Yeah, this is really cool. I want to do this.” They talked a lot about the lyrics and where they could go. It was pretty late in the process as well, but she came in I think, seven or eight months pregnant and she just killed it. I was blown away and it was so much fun to work with her. She was really open and I could ask her to try different characters with her voice or her output. It was so great with that song that I started thinking about two more tracks. And she came in and she killed them as well. So we ended up doing three songs! It was great collaborating with her.
FC: I have to say, it’s pretty cool that you were able to compose multiple original songs versus simply licensing an already existing track.
KF: Thanks! I’ve always been fascinated by and loved writing songs. I think that I tend to, when I’m writing a score, tend to write songs as a score. It’s not often that they are actual songs in the score, but they always have that kind of melodic sense. You could just remove them from the film and build them together as tracks. So, it’s kind of natural. A couple of years ago we did this 1980s TV series and that was all synthesizers. And that score also turned into ten or eleven 80s pop songs.
I’m kind of unabashed. I’m not that afraid to try things out, but I still have tons of respect when it comes to genres that I don’t normally do. I want to research and really find that authentic feeling. So, yeah. I’m really happy how this turned out. The fact that Mapei did these tracks really brought this authentic vibe to it and actually made them really great songs, I think.
Pleasure will be released via Neon in select theaters on Friday, May 13, 2022. Frid’s score is also being released digitally on May 13th via Milan Records. For more information on Frid and his wealth of work, check out his website here.
